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Financial Statement 

£ <&^C* OF 

'The HON. I. B. LUCAS 


Delivered on the 7th March, 1912 


On moving the House into Committee of Supply 



,«*. I 

Printed by L. K. CAMERON. Printer to the King's Most Excellent Majesty 


w • • 


Financial Statement 




Delivered on the 7th March, 1912 



On moving the House into Committee of Supply 



Printed by L. K. CAMERON, Printer to the King's Most 
Excellent Majesty 

Printed Bt 






7th MARCH, 1912 

Mr. Speaker: I am sure the House regrets the unfor- 
tunate illness of the honourable the Provincial Treasurer, 
which renders it impossible for him this year to make his 
usual budget speech. The honourable the Provincial Treasurer 
through his long experience as financial critic in this House — 
as Opposition critic — and during the last seven years as Treas- 
urer, has become exceedingly familiar with every phase of 
Provincial finance, and his clear and concise annual statement 
each session has been looked forward to with interest by the 
members of the House. I know that the members generally, 
and that the people of the Province to whom his service was 
so intelligently and faithfully given, join me in the hope that 
at an early date — before the end of the session — he will so 
far have regained his health as to be able to again be in 
the House and take up his work as Treasurer of this Prov- 

Under our Parliamentary procedure it has been the prac- 
tice for the Treasurer when rising to move, Mr. Speaker, that 
you do now leave the chair and the House resolve into Com- 
mittee of Supply, to more or less fully review the financial 
operations of the past year, and in a general way to take 
stock of the financial position of the Province. This prac- 
tice, no doubt, had its origin in, and is based on the sound 
constitutional principle that before the Government of the 
day submitted their estimates and asked Parliament for supply 


4 financial statement of 

they should give an account of the expenditure of the prev- 
ious supply bill. This practice has been slightly departed from 
this year. In any case there is not the same necessity for that 
practice to be as strictly observed as at one time. The public 
accounts now give us full details of that expenditure, they give 
us details which at one time it was left to the Provincial 
Treasurer to give in his budget speech. I hope this after- 
noon in the presentation of the financial statement to follow 
generally the lines taken by the Provincial Treasurer in his 
speeches to this House. I realize, however, perhaps more 
fully than the members of this House yet realize, how hopeless 
is the task for me to follow him, even within reasonable dis- 
tance, in comprehensiveness or lucidity of statement. I pro- 
pose therefore following the lines taken by the Provincial 
Treasurer, first : to place before the House a statement show- 
ing the actual cash receipts for the previous year, in this 
case the year ending October 31st, 191 1, and then compare 
these with the estimates as well as with the receipts in former 
years under this and other Governments. Having presented 
that statement — second, to present a statement of the expendi- 
tures, making similar comparisons with the estimated and past 
expenditure and such other comparisons as may seem neces- 
sary or desirable. And thirdly, to present the annual stock 
book and balance sheet which should show and does show the 
assets and liabilities of the province and where we stand in a 
financial way; and lastly, having reviewed the receipts and 
expenditures and having examined the balance sheet, submit 
the estimates for expenditures and receipts for the current 
year. Honourable gentlemen will find on their desks abstract 
statements setting out the particulars I have referred to and, 
to make time, I am simply presenting these statements and 
asking the House to take them as read. These will assist the 
honourable members in following any remarks or references 
I may have to make. 

First then as to our revenues : our sources of revenue 
in the Province are such that we can with some degree of 
accuracy estimate what our revenue will be. In this they 

HON. I. B. LUCAS. 5 

differ to a considerable extent from the Dominion revenue. 
Their revenue, to a large extent, comes from customs and 
excise duties and from other sources that are dependent 
upon so many conditions, and circumstances, entirely beyond 
the control or even the influence of the finance minister, that 
a forecast as to Dominion revenue must necessarily be more 
or less a guess, as to the general conditions of trade in the 
country. But even Dominion finance ministers are human, 
past and present, and therefore, naturally, we find them in- 
dulging in some exhibitions of joy, some jubilations, when they 
are able to announce to the House and the country a buoyant 
revenue or an unexpected increase of revenue from this or 
that direction or source. But a Provincial Treasurer has 
greater reason to congratulate himself when he can make a 
similar announcement, because our sources of revenue are to a 
large extent fixed, — apart possibly from succession duties — 
and so the Provincial Treasurer has a right to point with 
some degree of pride and satisfaction to increasing Provincial 
revenues, particularly in the administrative departments of 
the Government, and point to them as some evidence that 
there is a good business administration, that the revenues to 
which the Province is legitimately entitled, are being collected 
and that between the source of revenue and the Provincial 
strong-box there is no leakage, no waste, and no barnacles. 

And so, sir, the members of the House will be glad to 
observe that the revenues are still increasing year by year. 
You will observe that the ordinary revenue — I use ordinary 
revenue as distinguished from the total revenue — the ordinary 
revenue of the Province for the yearJjust closed was 
$9>37o>&33-9°, the largest revenue in the history of the Prov- 
ince Mpplir^) °° shown by appended Statement — and 
$479,829.22 more than in 19 10, which, up to that time, 
was also the highest revenue in the history of the 
Province; and so in each year since 1905 when this 
Government came into power we have been going higher each 
year. The revenue has been increasing by very substan- 


tial amounts each year until to-day after seven years of care- 
ful administration, proper collection of revenues, and taxa- 
tion rightly placed, we have an ordinary revenue, as I have 
said, of $9,370,833.90, or nearly, perhaps a little more, than 
double the average revenue of seven years ago. That is a rec- 
ord to which the Provincial Treasurer can reasonably point 
with some pride. 

Honourable gentlemen opposite will seek in vain to find a 
single source of revenue that they are willing to challenge in 
this House, or a source of revenue that can be pointed to as 
any burden on the great masses of the people, or any undue 
burden on any class, interest, or corporation. And so, sir, we 
point with some satisfaction to these increased revenues. But 
my honourable friend from North Grey has a favorite expres- 
sion, one we have heard over and over again in the House and 
the country; when he refers to these increased revenues, he 
says : "We dug the channels through which these revenues 
flow." While we must give the friends of honourable gentle- 
men opposite credit for doing something in the thirty-three 
years their party was in power, they didn't find much new 
revenue in that time. I have here a statement of the revenues 
of the Province from Confederation up to date. I am not going 
to read the full statement, but just make a reference or two to 
make clear my point, {j^find that in 1874 there was a revenue 
of $3,446,347.93. Then jump for twenty years and you will 
find the revenue was $3,453,162.69, or an increase in the 
revenue in twenty years of about $7,000. From 1894 you can 
go on to 1901. They had got beyond the four-million mark in 
receipts, finally reaching in their last year in office, 1904, total 
receipts of $4,464,100.26, excluding the special lumber bonus 
sale of that year; in other words, during the thirty years the 
revenue fluctuated between $3,500,000 and $4,464,000. During 
all that thirty years the increase in the revenue was as I have 
indicated. Whatever meaning and whatever inferences may 
be drawn from it, the fact is clear that for the thirty years 
the old Government was in power the revenues increased at 
an exceedingly slow rate. On the other hand, for some reason, 

HON. I. B. LUCAS. 7 

the revenues have very substantially increased, practically 
doubled, in seven years under this Government. And now, as 
to the familiar argument that we have heard on the hustings 
and in the House, that honourable gentleman opposite or their 
political friends dug the channels through which these in- 
creased revenues flow; even as to the old channels, some we 
found in bad shape; they needed repairs; we deepened them, 
we widened them, we cleaned them out. But, as I hope to 
show, we did more, we dug entirely new ones for which the 
honourable gentlemen can claim no credit for themselves or 
their party. 

But passing on to deal with these increased revenues in the 
statement before you. With one or two exceptions every item 
of the ordinary receipts for the past year was in excess of 
the estimates. In other words we received more money from 
nearly every Department than we expected or estimated that we 
would receive. On looking at the parallel column, you will 
see that the expenditures were in each case within the esti- 
mate. The receipts were more than we expected, the expenses 
were less, and we closed the year, as you observe, with a very 
comfortable hard cash balance of $1,503,916.99 in the banks. 

You will observe that from the Dominion of Canada a 
subsidy of $2,261,758.28 was received. Prior to 1906 the 
annual payment of subsidy by the Dominion Government to 
the Province had been at the rate of 80 cents per head on the 
census of 1861, the population then being fixed. We were 
paid from 1867 to 1907 on a population as fixed in 1861 ; the 
payments on that basis continued until 1907. One of the first 
matters to which the new Government addressed themselves 
in 1905 was to press upon the Government at Ottawa the 
desirability and the fairness and the justness of an increased 
subsidy from the Dominion treasury, and as a result of the 
conference of the Provincial Premiers in Ottawa in 1906, an 
increased subsidy was granted, based on the 1901 population. 
Our population had then increased to 2,182,947. Under the 
old arrangement we received $80,000 per year for government 
purposes ; that was increased to the sum of $240,000 per year. 


The Act now governing and fixing our subsidies is as follows : 
"Where the population exceeds 1,500,000, a special grant for 
local purposes and the support of government .... $240,000, 
the subsidy on population to be 80 cents per head until such 
population exceeds 2,500,000, and 60 cents per head for so 
much of population as may exceed 2,500,000." Our 191 1 
census puts us beyond that, and so on the excess of 2,500,000, 
we only receive 60 cents per head. The total subsidy, as you 
will observe, was some $132,986.20 more than our estimated 
subsidy, that being the additional amount paid by the Domin- 
ion for a half a year on the census of 191 1 rather than that 
of 1901. 

The second item : You will observe, that from interest, 
actual receipts were $132,284. This is less than the amount 
the Treasurer estimated he would receive. The interest item 
romes largely from bank deposits. The capital money on 
deposit in the bank at the beginning of the year was the basis 
on which the estimate of receipts was made. The capital 
expenditures were made faster than the Treasurer estimated, 
diminishing the bank balance faster and earlier than was 
expected. That explains the shortage in the interest item from 
the amount estimated. 

The next item — running down the detailed list — is from 
Crown Lands. This, of course, is our leading source of rev- 
enue, and from that source we have $2,710,242.68. That also 
is in excess of the estimate made by the Provincial Treasurer 
a year ago by some $110,000. The increases over the estimate 
were in two branches; royalties, that is, royalties on mines or 
mining properties sold by this Government, were estimated at 
$230,000, while the receipts were $285,000, an increase over 
the estimate of $55,000. That is a new source of revenue. 
That is a source of revenue which the honourable gentlemen 
opposite did not find for the Province of Ontario. We have 
received from that particular source — not a dollar of which 
would have reached the Treasury had the policy of this Gov- 
ernment not been adopted — $1,323,693.20. That does not in- 
clude other royalties payable directly to the Temiskaming and 

HON. I. B. LUCAS. 9 

Northern Ontario Railway. These are royalties received 
directly by the Province and not indirectly through the T. & 
N. O. Honourable gentlemen on the opposite side may think, 
and the House may think, "Well, this was a fortunate circum- 
stance, the great mining and Cobalt industries were developed 
since you came into power, and so you have these revenues." 
But not so, Sir, there came to the old Government an opportun- 
ity that never came to this Government to increase the revenue 
from that source. It seems to me that the greatest oppor- 
tunity, a clear, plain opportunity and corresponding duty, came 
to the old government to increase the revenues from that 
source, but they failed to take advantage of this opportunity, 
or as I see it, perform their duty. Honourable members will 
recall that in 1903, when the silver discoveries were made at 
Cobalt, the T. & N. O. was being built there, the Provincial 
railway, lands on each side of which had been specially set 
aside, the revenue from which was supposed to defray to 
some extent the building of that road. The discovery of a 
highly-mineralized section of land in the Township of Cole- 
man was made in 1903. Only a few claims were located when 
an officer of the Government, Professor Miller, went up into 
that country and made a report which appears in the blue 
books of the Province, in which he pointed out to the Govern- 
ment of the day the highly-mineralized section of the country 
in the immediate vicinity of what was afterwards Cobalt. He 
pointed out the desirability of withdrawing these lands from 
prospecting or locating until some policy could be adopted, 
that would bring to the Province of Ontario a share of the 
profits in this great discovery, a discovery made by the projec- 
tion of our own railway into that country. The Government had 
the information, they were properly advised ; they did nothing. 
They got a report by Professor Miller which advised the with- 
drawal of these lands from location until some policy could 
be adopted. They started right, they withdrew the lands from 
location and from prospecting until they could, as the order 
says, adopt some Provincial policy. They kept everybody out 
for six months ; no prospectors were allowed in and no claims 


were located, but at the end of six months, without a word of 
explanation, without adopting any policy from which the Pro- 
vince could derive one dollar of revenue, they threw it open 
again and we got nothing, and the men who went there and 
took up these Government lands are the Cobalt millionaires 
of to-day, without contributing any fair sum to the Public 

When we came in in 1905 there were only a few shreds 
and patches left, but as to these we adopted a policy of selling 
upon a royalty basis, without which not one dollar would have 
been received by the Province from the sale of Cobalt Lake, 
Kerr Lake and other claims disposed of by the Government. 
We adopted the policy of selling by competition, and so, Sir, 
we have $1,323,693.20 as a revenue that has come to this 
Province for which neither the honourable gentlemen opposite 
nor their predecessors in office are entitled to any credit so far 
as adopting any policy is concerned, but rather should be cen- 
sured for having failed to increase the revenues of the Prov- 
ince. Some idea of what might have been done had they 
lived up to their opportunities at that time can be grasped when 
I tell you the Cobalt Camp produced for 191 1, $16,500,000, 
and when I tell you the total to December 31st was $64,918,752. 

Passing on from royalties, which, as I have stated, were an 
increase of $55,000 on our estimate, we come to Supplementary 
Revenue, being acreage tax, profit tax and gas tax; receipts 
were estimated at $130,000, while the actual receipts were 
$209,000, an increase of $79,000, a total over the estimate for 
these two branches of $134,000. 

You will observe from Woods and Forests, including the 
bonus we received $1,711,438.87. This was less, about $110,000 
less, than the estimate, for reasons which I will point out later. 
You will observe that in the Woods and Forests item there 
are four heads under which the revenue comes to the Province, 
bonus, timber dues, ground rent and transfer fees. Every 
member of the House, I assume, is familiar with the change 
that was brought about by this government in 1905 with ref- 
erence to the sale of timber limits. Under the former system. 


so much territory was put up and you bought it subject to 
timber dues at so much bonus per square mile. Under the 
present system, a bonus is paid on the measurement, and on 
every foot of timber cut by the licensee he pays a bonus. There 
are obvious advantages under the latter method. I do not 
propose to argue it at length now. The former system allowed 
timber limits to be tied up for an indefinite period. The pres- 
ent system requires licenses to be issued for a definite period 
after which no further renewals will be given, and the territory 
will revert to the Crown. From a business standpoint that 
mode of selling timber has many features which would com- 
mend themselves to the judgment of any business man who 
had large timber limits to dispose of. The old method had 
advantages from a political standpoint. In the old days, when 
deficits were in sight and money was urgently needed, the old 
system was a grand stand-by. It was perfectly easy to call a 
timber limit sale, offer it at so much per square mile, capitalize 
your dues to get them paid at once, and then announce with 
a great deal of unction, " Here we are again, boys, with 
another surplus." 

Now we only get the bonus as part of the timber dues, we 
only get the bonus when and as the timber is cut. The old 
Government for instance, for the last two years that they were 
in power, in 1903 and 1904, received, in 1903, $1,340,696 by 
the selling of timber limits in cash. In the last year they re- 
ceived $1,664,258, so that in the last two years of their gov- 
ernment they received over $3,000,000 by this beautiful system 
of selling timber limits whenever you want some money. This 
Government, although the revenues have increased, has lost to 
a large extent that source of revenue. Take the last five years 
to get an average. In the last five years of power the old 
government received $4,440,000, or an average each year for 
five years of $880,000 as timber bonuses. This government 
during the last five years has reecived $1,057,799.81, an average 
of $211,559.96. In other words, the old Government received 
four times as much from bonus on sale of timber limits per 
year as we did. Taking their last two years from timber 


bonus receipts they collected more in two years than this Gov- 
ernment, taking the average for the past five years, would col- 
lect in fifteen years. So, Sir, you see how that would work 
out. If you deduct that timber bonus from the revenues of the 
old government during the last year of office, or any year, you 
will find a deficit in each year. Take their last five years and 
deduct these timber bonuses, and you will have a deficit of 
$2,449,593. But, Sir, if you deduct every dollar of timber 
bonus this government has received, it still has a nice, sound 
little surplus of ordinary receipts over ordinary expendi- 

Sir James Whitney, prior to taking office, and referring to 
these annual deficits and the beautiful way they had of meeting 
them and of the starved public services, said : 

"With her extensive resources, the problem of the Provin- 
cial finances can be easily solved leaving the way cleared for 
such increased expenditures on Agriculture and Education as 
may be found necessary and desirable, and the result can be 
arrived at without periodically selling timber limits, or in other 
words, capital stock, to cover up an anticipated deficit caused 
by the excess of annual expenditure over annual income." 

Sir James has proved himself a safe and sane financial 
prophet. We have increased the expenditures, we have got 
the revenue, and we have got a surplus without taking one 
dollar of bonus from timber sales, and I say we have done all 
this after giving immensely increased grants to education, 
agriculture, for the development of New Ontario, for good 
roads, hospitals for the insane, and cash back to the municipali- 
ties from railway taxation, and closed — taking in the legiti- 
mate bonus that we are entitled to receive as the timber is cut 
and not discounting the future — after seven years, with a sur- 
plus of $1,388,775.87 of ordinary revenue over ordinary expen- 
ditures. ( Applause ) . 

Leaving Woods, Forests and Mines, and coming to the next 
item, you will find Licenses. The license revenue from Tav- 
erns and Brewers exceeded the estimate by $156,000. This is 
partly accounted for, mainly accounted for, by the new tax 

HON. I. B. LUCAS. 13 

of five per cent, on bar receipts. For five months that tax 
amounted to $118,891.71, so that it would look as if that tax 
would produce a revenue of $250,000 to $300,000 a year on its 
present basis. The total amount of revenue from this source 
was $656,363.66. As you will observe, this is a very large 
increase during recent years. 

Similar items you will find running down the list ; Law 
Stamps exceeded the estimate by $4.000, — more litigation in the 
country, I suppose ; Educational revenue, a slight falling off, — 
this is not a revenue producing department ; Game and Fisher- 
ies; this is a distinctly administrative department and shows 
a small increase of $5,000, the total revenue being $130,267.39. 
Then the Provincial Secretary's Department, which shows very 
marked increases of revenue this year, as it has in former 
years. This is to some extent the result of good administra- 
tion in the Department, and is an evidence of the general 
prosperity throughout the Province. 

Then to come to the Supplementary Revenue Act, which 
has an increase, producing $854,659.91, an increase of $100,000 
over the amount estimated. Changes have been made in that 
Act which is producing and will continue to produce increased 
revenues for the Province. Last year, as the members of the 
House remember, a tax was imposed on the transfer of stock 
certificates of two cents on each $100 par value consequent 
upon the change of ownership. This tax came into force on 
June 1st and in five months produced $13,788.30. This is a 
source of revenue that is likely to grow and from which one 
would expect a substantial increase as the years go by. Then 
there is the tax on race meetings; this brought a revenue of 
$15,790, the total amount received from Supplementary Rev- 
enue, as I have stated, being $854,659.91. 

Then coming to Succession Duties, we find a large increase 
there. If the House will permit me, I would like to refer to 
Succession Duties just a little in detail. It has become one of 
the most important branches of revenue in the Province. 
There is no better indication of the great growth of Ontario 
and the increased wealth of its residents than the receipts 


from Succession Duties. This year, you will observe, the 
gross sum of $1,013,902.52 has been received. This, I think, 
is the third year where the million mark has been passed in 
receipts. Of course, it is difficult to estimate the amount to 
be received from Succession Duties. The amount received is 
substantially more than was estimated by the Provincial Treas- 
urer a year ago. 

Just in passing, to correct some impressions that some- 
body sometimes sends out through the country. The mode of 
obtaining this revenue is not new to Ontario. For many 
years in the Old Country this has been a source of revenue. 
But, contrary to the impression sometimes given by honour- 
able gentlemen opposite, this mode of obtaining money has 
met with approval. It has met with approval from both sides 
of the House from the beginning, except perhaps in one or 
two individual cases. This is a tax levied from the larger 
estates of persons who have amassed great wealth, at a time 
when it passes to individuals who have not been responsible 
in any way for the accumulation of such wealth, nor has the 
property been earned by those who take gratuitously and who 
suffer no privation or vexation through the levying of a small 
percentage of the estate before the passing to the recipients. 
There need be no justification made for the levying of a 
reasonable tax from such amassed wealth, which has been 
created under the benign protection of wise provincial and 
municipal laws and the protection of civil rights by the state. 

The time for explaining the meaning of the succession 
duty tax has gone by, but honourable gentlemen opposite and 
their predecessors in office have frequently and wrongfully in 
this House taken credit for the introduction of the Succession 
Duty Act and the large amounts which have accrued to the 
Province under it. Of course, they introduced it, of course, 
they brought it into the House, but my honourable friend from 
Grey goes astray when he says that the House was not united 
on that matter. V I took the trouble to have some of the debates 
referred to, so that we might see just where the House was. 
While they introduced it, as I have said, and while upon some 

HON. I. B. LUCAS. 15 

occasions, those who will look up the debates will find, the 
Provincial Treasurer on more than one occasion offered strong 
criticism, it was more particularly directed against the modes 
of calculating the rate of duty and the mode of its collection 
than against the principle of this method of taxation, claim- 
ing that the provisions of the Act had been oppressive, that 
the rates were higher as to some classes of beneficiaries than 
those in Great Britain and further that the burden was on 
certain classes and not generally on the whole community. 
The Provincial Treasurer of to-day has vindicated his position 
as financial critic by bringing a far greater proportion of es- 
tates in the Province under the Succession Duty Act, while not 
oppressing the poorer estates, providing a low graduated tax 
of one to five per cent, on estates devolving on lineals, where 
the net value exceeds $50,000 up to $200,000. He has also 
vindicated his opposition to the rates in vogue prior to 1905, 
by placing on the Statutes the graduated additional tax which 
was then imposed upon the beneficiary according to the value 
of the benefits received. 

Without delaying longer on that, let me draw your atten- 
tion for a few moments to statements made by the Honour- 
able Mr. Harcourt in introducing the Succession Duties Act 
of 1892 and the oft-repeated story that the Opposition of the 
day were opposed in principle to the Succession Duty Act. 
" Mr. Harcourt " — I am quoting from The Globe — " then 
moved the second reading of the Bill to provide for the pay- 
ment of Succession duties in certain cases. He said there 
was no disagreement as to the abstract question of imposing 
such duties. The question here was new and had not been 
discussed, but in England it was an old and familiar prin- 

Mr. Meredith, now Sir William Meredith, then leader of 
the Opposition, on the same occasion, after debating and 
discussing across the floor of the House the claim of the hon- 
ourable gentlemen opposite that there was no need for taxa- 
tion, that the Government had ample revenue without any 
additional scheme of taxation, closed his argument with this 
statement : 


'If the honourable gentleman had, instead of addressing 
himself to the preamble of the bill to give colour to the argu- 
ment which he had addressed to the House, addressed himself 
to prove the falsification of the prophesies of his colleagues 
against the approach of the day of direct taxation, he would 
have done more than he had effected to satisfy the people. The 
Government had gone to the country with the boast that 
direct taxation was generations away, they had a surplus of 
six and a half millions, inexhaustible timber resources, and 
so forth, and yet he had to confess that the charities of the 
Province could not be longer maintained unless special addi- 
tional sources of revenue were created. The honourable gen- 
tleman did not need to go so far afield as Rome, Britain and 
foreign countries for illustrations to point the state of affairs. 
He could have got an illustration nearer home, in the Prov- 
ince of Quebec, where there was a bankrupt exchequer. He 
wished to emphasize the admissions made by the Provincial 
Treasurer that he thought that since additional sources of 
revenue had become a necessity, the source proposed was 
perhaps one of the least objectionable which could be pro- 

And so another of those old traditions must pass away. 
We have seen the end of it. After this Government came into 
power in 1905, the Treasurer of this Province, for whom I 
speak to-day, vindicated, and I say vindicated successfully, 
his criticism of the unfairness of the tax and the lack of 
uniformity by readjusting the rates chargeable against lineal 
heirs, and in other respects giving us a broader and much 
improved scheme of taxation. 

As honourable members of the House know, one-half of 
the succession duties based on the average receipts of the 
previous three years goes under the statute to Toronto Uni- 
versity. During the recent campaign there was some criticism 
of this grant. We did not hear so much of it in the House 
as we did on the hustings. Coming back just now we have 
the ring that we heard on the hustings in our ears as to this 
grant. It is worth pointing out to honourable gentlemen, who, 

HON. I. B, LUCAS. 17 

I charitably assume, make their criticisms against this grant 
in moments of weakness- -some things of which they may not 
be aware. Dealing with the argument, with which the honour- 
able gentlemen opposite are familiar — that there is a large 
grant going to Toronto University to which the whole Prov- 
ince of Ontario is contributing — the inference being that it is 
excessively in proportion to the aid going to other parts — the 
honourable gentleman from Grey smiles, because he knows 
that argument — it is an old friend of his on the hustings. 
Where does the revenue originate? Looking at the County of 
York, including the City of Toronto where the University is 
located, we find that it has contributed nearly 43 per cent, 
of all the succession duties. In other words, if we were to base 
an argument on the narrow sectional ground that the Prov- 
ince should not give these large grants to the University and 
smaller grants to other places, if I were to make an argument 
on a similarly narrow basis I would point out that the City 
of Toronto, and the county, pays in hard cash 43 per cent, 
of the total succession duty revenue. Take my own county, 
where we are not worried about our succession duty taxes. I 
have the details here. We have paid from Grey County from 
1892 to 191 1, about two-fifths of one per cent, towards the 
succession duties of the Province. That is no reflection upon 
Grey, of course. It may be an evidence of more equal dis- 
tribution of wealth. You never tax an estate going to the 
direct heirs unless it exceeds fifty thousand. I refer to this 
only to show the kind of answer that might be made. 

We are not apologizing for our expenditures in connec- 
tion with the University. On the other hand we are proud of 
putting that institution upon a sound financial basis. (Ap- 

Passing on then to the next item, going over all these items. 
There is the item of Casual Revenue. It was estimated at 
$100,000, and the receipts were $160,000. The Provincial 
Police produced a revenue of $4,687, an increase of some 
$2,000. Moving Pictures increased some $2,000 by reason of 
a change in the license fee, the total amount received being 


$12,088. Private bills increased $2,000, and other items such 
as fines, fees, etc., increased in proportion. 

Then we come to the last item in the ordinary receipts, 
the T. and N. O. Railway, from earnings, $515,000. These 
receipts might have been substantially increased. I have 
before me a statement showing the actual revenue earned 
during 191 1 by the T. and N. O. Railway. The total earn- 
ings for the year over operating expenses and all other charges 
amount to $593,152.69, although the Treasury receipts during 
the year are only the lump sum of $515,000. That is indeed, 
a very satisfactory result from the T. & N. O. Railway. To 
review in two or three words, because I do not care to take 
the time to deal with the matter in detail, we have a total 
expenditure in connection with the T. & N. O., as you will 
notice on the first sheet of the statement of assets I have placed 
before you, a total investment of $17,535,662.69 to the 
end of the year. To represent that we have the main line 
from North Bay to Cochrane, a distance of 252.8 miles, the 
Charlton branch, the Kerr Lake Branch, the Haileybury spur 
and the Porcupine branch, the four having a mileage of some- 
thing over 41 miles. We have in addition to that the yards 
and sidings of the main and branch lines, and the Liskeard 
spur, a total of 85.49 miles, a total for the railway of 379, 
nearly 380 miles. And we have, as I have told you, a total 
earnings for the year over all cost of operation and other 
charges of $593,152.69. In addition a percentage statement 
has been placed before me, which is interesting. The oper- 
ating expenses this year amount to 66.4 per cent, of the gross 
earnings, and the net earnings, of course, is the balance, 33.6 
per cent, as compared to the previous year with 73.2 per cent, 
representing the operating expenses, so that we have decreased 
the percentage of operating expenses by 7 per cent, and con- 
sequently have that much greater proportion of net earnings. 

In addition more investments have recently been made. 
There is the Elk Lake branch. Tenders have been called for 
the construction of a branch line from Earlton to Elk Lake. 
The Nipissing Central Railway was purchased last June for 

HON. I. B. LUCAS. 10, 

$250,000 and we have net earnings from June 21, to the end 
of the financial year, of $11,029.67, so that it is paying full 
interest on the capital investment and something more. 

We have had some criticism from honourable gentlemen 
opposite as to the T. & N. O. Railway. I mean during the 
election. We never hear anything about it except during an 
election. I read, Sir, a passage in a newspaper where the 
people in the north country wanted reduced rates, where they 
wanted two cents a mile, and reduction in freight rates. Of 
course it is an easy and popular thing to have reduction in 
rates. We would like to have them everywhere. But this 
House, I think, ought to be unanimously behind the T. & N. O. 
Commission, in the management of this Railway as a business 
proposition. It is a great experiment in public ownership and 
in the interests of all the people. It should be managed 
on sound business principles. The chairman, Mr. Englehart, 
and his colleagues on the Commission, are doing splendid work, 
and their management of this road is the best "asset" public or 
government ownership has in Canada to-day. 

Mr. Gamey: With regard to this $515,000. Is that net 
earnings? Have you taken into account the interest on the 
bond issues? 

Hon. Mr. Lucas: Oh, no, that does not take account of 
interest. That net profit is the fund out of which the interest 
must come, and it is a very handsome profit for a new Rail- 
way, and compared with any other Government railway in 
Canada, the only other is the Intercolonial, and it has not 
even paid operating expenses — this road has a splendid record. 
It has paid general operating charges and expenses and has 
produced a revenue of $593,000 net earnings for the year, to 
meet of course, the interest. So if my honourable friends 
were to have their hearts desire and the road placed under the 
Dominion Railway Board, and then ask for lower rates, (the 
question of earnings would be the first principle. The Board 
would, as they did the other day in the Yukon Railway Case, 
take the position that no Government controlling body should 
compel a Railway to reduce rates below that point where they 


could pay over and above operating expenses a reasonable 
dividend upon the actual capital invested. Dividends upon 
watered stock is a different matter. The T. & N. O. Railway 
is not yet paying the full interest on the capital investment. 
We hope as trade develops and the country opens up, that it 
will. But if these people could go before the Dominion Rail- 
way Board now with a grievance as to high rates, to get lower 
passenger rates, they could not hope to succeed in getting any 
reduced rates in that way. 

Sir James Whitney: And then there is the arrange- 
ment for running rights with the Grand Trunk. 

Hon. Mr. Lucas: Yes, as the Premier has pointed out. 
The House is fairly familiar with the statement of the Premier 
that the T. & N. O. have entered into an agreement with the 
Grand Trunk to give the Grand Trunk running rights and 
rights at the North Bay terminal. These running rights are 
over the main line between North Bay and Cochrane. The 
agreement does not touch the branch lines. The agreement 
gives the T. & N. O. $300,000 a year, which is estimated to 
meet one-half the interest on the whole capital expenditure. 

Mr. Roweix: Does that revenue of the T. & N. O. include 
royalties? If so, how much? 

Hon. Mr. Lucas: Yes, that includes royalties. The 
$593,000 includes royalties last year of $17,060. That goes 
into the general receipts. 

Mr. RowEtl: Does it also include proceeds from the sale 
of land? Is so, how much? 

Hon. Mr. Lucas : Perhaps I can give the figures. The 
revenue from transportation was $1,708,492.02. Revenue 
other than transportation — I think I have that here and can 
give it to the honourable gentleman. Yes; from the sale of 
town sites there was received $13,990, that I assume is also 
in the total revenue of $593,000, but am not at the moment 
certain. That may be, and I rather think is additional rev- 

But the point I am making is this, that we are still in the 
initial stages of that railway, and at any rate for the present, 

HON. I. B. IvUCAS. 21 

until we have net receipts of $600,000 or whatever is required 
to pay the interest on the capital cost, there would be no 
reduced rates under any ruling or principle as yet laid down 
by the Dominion Railway Board. 

Passing on from the T. & N. O. Railway, honourable gen- 
tlemen will observe from the statement that we have had 
some receipts on capital account. You will see that the state- 
ment distinguishes, as I think any statement ought to dis- 
tinguish, between ordinary receipts and receipts on capital 
account. For instance, if we desire to place a clear statement 
before the House, we should not include in the ordinary re- 
ceipts, a payment from Drainage Debentures, nor on the other 
hand, moneys paid out for Drainage Debentures. These and 
similar items now go into capital receipts and capital expen- 
ditures, so that we have a statement clear and intelligent to 

We have invested during the year in Drainage Deben- 
tures $56,000 and received $20,000. From Municipal Sinking 
Funds we have received $30,179. Honourable gentlemen are 
familiar with the legislation which provides that where a 
municipality desires to raise a sinking fund to meet the 
debentures it may pay the money in to the Government and 
receive interest at four per cent. It is found to be a satisfac- 
tory form of investment for municipalities for their sinking 

We have placed loans this year — I do not need to deal with 
them. There was the Algonquin Park loan, authorized for 
$500,000, to buy the Algonquin Park Licenses; we issued 
only $290,000 of this. We sold it at 102 and accrued interest, 
and the Government received over all costs of advertising, 
brokerage, engraving, and everything else, a bonus of 
$2,989.44, showing a very satisfactory disposal of the loan. 

We also placed an English loan of £500,000, the proceeds 
of which were $2,387,805.64, upon similar terms to those of 
the £820,000 loan issued in 1909. 

Mr. RowEivL: What was the rate of interest? 


Hon. Mr. Lucas: The Algonquin Park Loan — that is a 
four per cent. loan. The English loan issued at 101 is also a 
four per cent., selling, I might add, to-day at 103. 

Then you have the Assurance Fund under The Land Titles 
Act; under that heading we received $30,000. Out of that 
fund we are building the addition to Osgoode Hall. That 
money bears interest at 2]/ 2 per cent., which the Province is 

The last item included in capital receipts is from the sale 
of the Central Prison and Toronto Asylum properties. In the 
statements of the Provincial Treasurer, he has never included 
such things as public buildings in the statements of the assets 
of the Province, and so here we find a cash receipt of $89,840 
from the sale of Central Prison and Toronto Asylum proper- 
ties, which we sold, I think, for $1,025,000, which will largely 
meet the proposed expenditure the Provincial Secretary has 
in sight for similar buildings. 

I now come to the expenditures for the past year, amount- 
ing to $9,619,934.03. 

This total it will be observed is $249,100.13 more than the 
ordinary receipts. This shortage, however, is apparent rather 
than real and may be explained in this way. A little earlier in 
my remarks, when we were dealing with the T. & N. O. 
Railway, I said that while we have paid the full interest, and 
while the proper item to come to us was the total net earn- 
ings, yet we have only put in the receipts $515,000, because 
the Commission had only paid over to us that amount and there 
was $78,000 from the T. & N. O. properly applicable to the 
ordinary receipts of the year. That is so clear that it only 
needs to be stated to be accepted. Taking that $78,000 not 
paid over because the accounts were not fully adjusted to the 
end of the year, add it to the item for timber dues, — the 
system of keeping accounts, I might explain, leaves a period 
of about eighteen days after the close of the fiscal year when 
the books are held open for payments, but closed for receipts, 
whereas it seems to me that you ought to include the receipts 
for those eighteen days. The statement of expenditures which 

HON. I. B. LUCAS. 23 

I have given you includes the fiscal year and eighteen days 
subsequent to it, so we should also include the revenue for 
that time. Therefore, we might include the amounts received 
on the 8th and ioth November from Crown Lands on timber 
dues of $273,648.28. This balance item from the T. & N. O. 
of $78,000, earned but not paid, and the items for timber 
dues which came in during the eighteen days, the two together 
make, without anything else, $351,648.28, or an actual surplus 
of $102,548.15 for the year. 

Hon. Mr. Mackay: Were the expenditures within that 
eighteen days, were they not expenditures for the fiscal year 
before but paid afterwards? Were they not expenditures 
incurred in the fiscal year and therefore properly belonging 
to that year? 

Hon. Mr. Lucas : The point is that the T. & N. O. had 
earnings of $78,000 in excess of what we actually received, 
that should have come in. The timber dues were money that 
we received during that time and were dues on timber cut 
during the fiscal year and properly ought to have been 
included with last year's receipts. 

But the particular point is perhaps a book-keeping propo- 
sition. The important question is, " How have we been run- 
ning on the average? Where are we standing after seven 
years?" I find that for the seven years we have had an aver- 
age annual surplus of ordinary revenue over ordinary expendi- 
ture of $198,396.55. That is very satisfactory. 

Mr. RowEu, : Did the same thing apply to the closing of 
the accounts a year ago as applies in the present case ? 

Hon. Mr. Lucas: As to receipts from timber sales, I am 
unable at the moment to say. 

Mr. RowELL : Was any revenue taken in last year, or has 
the system been the same for the two years? 

Hon. Mr. Lucas : I think every year some of the revenue 
is taken in for the eighteen days, and I think, perhaps, it has 
been usual to take in the Crown Land timber revenues, but I 
am not certain as to that. 


Passing on to our ordinary expenditures. These have been 
in nearly every instance within the estimates in every Depart- 

Railway Tax Distribution to the Municipalities : we paid 
from this source, $83,402.54. Since the Act came into force 
we have paid $41 1,000 in cash back to the municipalities. We, of 
course, have made our payments to the University and provided 
also for our capital expenditures. Passing on without dealing 
with all these details, we come to the large item of Education ; 
you will see the item of $1,885,739.57. While that is an in- 
creased amount, it does not include all our educational grants. 
During the past year there has been spent for education — 
education in all its branches, not including the agricultural 
college, a total of $2,374,314.80, that has been spent by this 
Province for educational purposes during the past year. This 
is a very large expenditure, and it has been a growing expen- 
diture — one of the items of expenditure that has grown very 
largely under this Government. The old Government in 1904 
spent in all on education less than $1,000,000, while our ex- 
penditure last year was, as I have said, $2,374,314.80. Their 
highest expenditure never reached the million mark, so you 
can see where part of the increased revenue is going. It is a 
large expenditure but we believe a justifiable one. If we are 
building for the future we must not only grow in population, 
wealth and material development, but we must grow in those 
qualities of mind and heart that make for good citizenship, 
and the greatest responsibility that rests upon this or any Gov- 
ernment in Ontario to-day is the education of the 700,000 boys 
and girls in the schools and universities of the country upon 
whose mental and moral equipment the future of this country 
will largely depend. If we are to live up to our responsibilities 
in this Province of Ontario this large educational expenditure 
will continue. 

We are apparently on the eve of great development in this 
vast country. We have, been criticized by the honourable 
gentlemen because we have not rushed settlers into the north 
during the past few years. We have heard a lot about it 

HON. I. B. LUCAS. 25 

since the new leader came in with his brand new policy. It is 
a habit new leaders have; we are growing accustomed to it in 
this House. What have we done? As my honourable friend 
on the right (Hon. Mr. Hearst) has pointed out, we have with 
great energy pressed forward the construction of the T. & N. 
O. Railway at a cost of over $17,000,000, until it has made 
connection with the Transcontinental Railway, which will 
soon be running trains East and West through the great clay 
belt. How could we have rushed settlement until there was 
railway communication? It was impossible, and if it had been 
possible it would have been a huge mistake. The time has 
now arrived, with the Transcontinental Railway about com- 
pleted through that territory, with our own road connecting, 
when we can go forward and open up that country intelligently 
and successfully ; and as you know the Government proposes to 
ask the House to appropriate a large sum of money to enable 
us to do so. We believe settlers can now go into that country 
under circumstances that will render success certain. There 
will be railways, there will be the roads, there will be the mar- 
kets for everything they can raise, and the pulpwood, of which 
there is an enormous quantity, can be sold at good prices. The 
future will justify us in the policy we have pursued in hasten- 
ing slowly in the development of that great northland. 

We believe the Government at Ottawa is going to give us 
aid for agriculture, for good roads and in other directions. We 
believe that we will receive liberal justice from the Govern- 
ment at Ottawa, and that these grants will materially assist 
us in pursuing the policy we are launching out with in New 

And, Sir, if I may be permitted to say one word of warn- 
ing to the able and energetic, enthusiastic and optimistic band 
of men who represent that great north country in this House — 
all of whom I believe sit on this side of the House — 

Mr. Roweu, : What about the man on this side ? We have 
one good man. 

Hon. Mr. Lucas : He is the exception that proves the gen- 
eral rule. There must always be one exception. If I were to 


say one word of caution to them and to this House, it would 
be this : Let there be no mad rush for settlers in that country, 
that " quality rather than quantity," should be the motto for 
the development of New Ontario. You want settlers in New 
Ontario. We want to see New Ontario developed. We in Old 
Ontario want the citizens. The strength and test of the true 
development of that country will not be the number of sett- 
lers but the class of citizenship you fill up that country with. 
We have been doing much for that country ; we have been 
doing a great deal. Honourable gentlemen opposite say that 
they are very sympathetic with that new country and com- 
plain about what we have done. Honourable gentlemen, in 
that respect, when we think of their performances and their 
professions, remind me of a verse I heard once. It was spoken 
by a parishioner to a sporting parson who did not live up to 
his professions : 

"If us do as you say, 

Us go to heaven straightaway; 

But if us do as you do, 

Us go to the other place, you too." 

And so I say to my honourable friends opposite. In oppo- 
sition, your professions of love for New Ontario are beautiful, 
your theories and sympathies now are splendid, but in office 
your practices were abominable. Why, Sir, you gave for 
colonization roads, in 1904, $175,000. We gave $451,000 last 
year. The last year you were in office you gave for public 
buildings, the highest you ever gave, $58,000; while we gave 
last year, $134,000. For education you gave $58,000, we gave 
$159,000. For agriculture you gave $9,000, we gave $26,000. 
For hospitals and charities you gave $9,000, and we gave 
$41,000. For the enforcement of the liquor license laws, you 
gave not a dollar, we gave $10,000. And so on throughout 
the list of expenditures. 

But sir, we have not only been paying our way out of our 
ordinary receipts, but we have been paying off some liabilities, 
and when we pay off a liability we do so out of ordinary 
receipts and charge it up as an ordinary expenditure. 

HON. I. B. LUCAS. 27 

The amount of direct liabilities paid off during the year 
amounted to $158,388.19. I refer to the present value of the 
railway aid certificates, $90,409.79. You remember the way 
our honourable friends opposite used to pay off these railway 
aid certificates. When one came due, they issued a new one 
covering a period of forty years, and like the farmer who 
always paid his notes by giving new ones, thanked goodness 
that that debt was out of the way. We pay them in cash, 
charge them up as an item of ordinary expenditure, and yet 
are able to run along and show a surplus. We paid into 
sinking fund on account of English loans, $55,283.90 last year, 
so that we have paid in all $158,000 on account of liabilities. 
Our ordinary expenditure this year has increased over last 
year. We have increases in many directions. We have an 
increase of $184,000 on education this year over last year, an 
increase in the maintenance of public institutions of $121,684, 
an increase on colonization and immigration of $31,000, an 
increase on agriculture of $58,000, hospitals for the insane an 
increase of $58,000. Then there is the increase for Govern- 
ment Buildings for assisting immigration, an increase of 
$17,000. Interest on loans, an increase of $88,000, and so on. 
But then we have been borrowing money. We have heard of 
it recently, we have heard of it often. We have been creat- 
ing a debt. That is true. The statement before you shows 
plainly and exactly the total amount of the debt of the Prov- 
ince. I do not intend to deal with it at any greater length 
now. But, Mr. Speaker, our good friends opposite protest 
against the "large and growing expenditure " — I believe that 
is the orthodox way to put it. Will they tell us what they 
protest against? Our honourable friends might give us some 
details. They have been sitting in the House for the past 
seven years, yet they have failed to give any details ! Is it the 
grant for education or any part of it they protest against, or is 
it the grant for agriculture? Is it the grant for colonization 
roads? or perhaps it is the grant for the general development 
of New Ontario? Is it the grant for hospitals or for asy- 
lums? There is an increasing expenditure on all these. Is it 


the payment back to the municipalities in hard cash out of 
the railway taxation they object to? All these are ordinary 
expenditures. Do they protest against the Hydro-Electric 
expenditure? Honourable gentlemen must be specific in their 
objections to the "large and growing expenditures." (Ap- 

Of all the expenditures for the past years that we have 
dealt with, they have not challenged, upon the floor of the 
House, more than two or three hundred dollars, and that only 
in a very feeble and apologetic manner. What do we find? 
We find honourable gentlemen opposite almost every day in 
the estimates abusing the Government because they do not 
launch out in some new line of expenditure. So far as we 
hear these protests, they are not against the spending of money, 
because they do not challenge the item of expenditure on the 
floor of the House — perhaps some of their friends might suffer. 
They are all the time waiting on us with deputations wanting 
more expenditure. They complain bitterly because we are not 
spending sufficient money on some fad that appeals to honour- 
able gentlemen opposite. And the complaint, or the chief 
complaint, Mr. Speaker, concerning our expenditures is not 
that we are spending where we should not, but rather when 
we come to details the opposite — my honourable friends oppo- 
site are hard to please. They object to the total; it is too great 
an expenditure. They object to its detail; not because it is 
too great an expenditure, but because it is not great enough. 
They forget the whole is made up of the parts. 

But, Mr. Speaker, I must not dwell longer upon the expendi- 
ture. The public accounts give the details of these expendi- 
tures. They have been discussed recently upon a thousand 
platforms in the Province of Ontario. The case has gone to the 
jury, the verdict has been given and is entirely satisfactory 
to the gentlemen on this side of the House. 

Sir James Whitney : Without leaving the box, too ! 

Hon. Mr. Lucas : Yes, and practically unanimously. Now 
the Government believe that if you want good service there 
must be reasonable compensation for employees. If the Prov- 

HON. I. B. LUCAS. 29 

ince is to retain the best men in its service we must pay reason- 
able salaries, and so there have been increased allowances 
in the civil service. I believe there will have to be increased 
allowances in the future as well. I believe the House will be 
unanimous in approving of these increases. The Government 
has practised economy only so far as economy is consistent 
with efficient administration, and the Government have no 
apologies to make for increased expenditures. Seventy-five 
per cent, of the ordinary expenditure defrayed from ordinary 
receipts is not the cost of Government, but is paid out in a way 
that is directly beneficial to the Province. And keeping in 
view our increased revenue, the Government has not been afraid 
to meet the demand for increased expenditure or new expen- 
ditures which the growing needs of a developing province 
may from time to time require. That will be our policy in the 
future as it has been in the past. 

I pass on then to the balance sheet, the statement of assets 
and liabilities. It is the first sheet of the schedule, but is dealt 
with the last because it is the best of all, showing the standing 
of the Province to-day. And so I present to the House a state- 
ment of the cash and debenture assets of the Province, which 
shows where we stand after seven years of government. 

As I have said already, we have paid our way each year out 
of ordinary revenues and have a net surplus at the end of 
seven years of $1,388,775. The appended statement shows total 
assets of $26,936,069.30, against total direct liabilities of 
$24,765,922.68, showing a substantial margin or surplus. Of 
these total assets of twenty-six millions, twenty-five million of 
them are interest bearing or dividend paying assets and carry 
themselves. But, Sir, our honourable friends opposite and 
their friends on the hustings said, " You have increased the 
public debt, you have been borrowing money," and that is 
said in a manner calculated to frighten the ordinary elector 
of the Province. But somehow it does not frighten them. 
Of course we have beeen borrowing money, but we have 
assets to represent every dollar, in the T. and N. O. and 
the Hydro-Electric system. I must not overlook that 


wonderful system, although I am sure my honourable 
friend from London will deal with it later on. But just 
for a moment let me give two or three figures as to where 
it stands. Early in the year 1908, specifications were drawn 
up and contracts were let for the Niagara transmission line. 
The work has been completed, apart from extensions, and 
completed within the estimates — a remarkable tribute to the 
business capacity and ability of the honourable member for 
London and his colleagues on the Commission. Well, how is 
it paying; what is the future of it? For two or three years 
during construction the interest and expenditures were 
charged up to capital. All operation, maintenance and power 
costs were taken care of prior to the end of the year, and 
left a balance of $26,000 to the credit of interest account. 
Now we have a detialed statement for the three months. Per- 
haps I had better give the revenue for the month of Novem- 
ber; taking the whole Niagara transmission line, revenue from 
power was $33,770.98. We paid for the power, $13,405.18, 
and for operation and maintenance, $8,172.32, leaving a net 
revenue for the month over all operating expenses of 
$12,193.48. For December, we have a net revenue of 
$14,873.12, and for January, $17,542.23. You will see that 
the net revenue is increasing each month and for the three 
months the total net revenue was $44,608.83. There is an- 
other item that might have been included in our receipts, 
but the Hydro-Electric paid the interest on capital expendi- 
tures to the amount of $40,384.14 out of ordinary receipts 
and left $4,224.69 to the credit of depreciation account. 

Port Arthur did the same, paying their interest in full, 
Penetang and Midland did the same, Niagara did the same; 
not only did they pay their interest, but they had the net 
profit with the $26,000 earned before the end of the year of 

This great work has been brought to this successful issue, 
and as I said before I won't deal with it further now, but 
that is one of the items which of course accounts for the 
debt, and with which honourable gentlemen try to frighten the 
country. Would it have pleased honourable gentlemen oppo- 

HON. I. B. LUCAS. 31 

site or the people of the Province if we had been able to say- 
to them after our seven years : " We have done nothing for 
the Province in the way of great enterprises, but we have 
not increased the public debt " ? Would not that have been like 
the man we have heard about who buried his talent and 
brought it back without increase ? 

I am proud to belong to an optimistic party, a party 
who are not afraid of the future of this Province or of this 
country, and who, when the opportunity for government 
came both at Toronto and Ottawa, were not afraid to build 
for the future and promote the prosperity and welfare of the 
people by engaging in great public works and enterprises in 
every direction. Our honourable friends upon the hustings 
tell of the increase of the public debt, but they always forget 
to tell, or nearly always — or perhaps I should be more char- 
itable and say that they have not time to tell — about the 
assets we have, when they speak about this public debt. They 
forget to tell that this debt is represented by dividend bear- 
ing or interest paying assets. They forget to tell you that it 
represents the T. & N. O. Railway that has opened up and 
developed the great northland. They forget to tell you that 
it represents the Niagara Hydro-Electric development, which 
stands to-day a monument to the genius of the member for 
London and his colleagues of the Commission. It repre- 
sents a completed gigantic and successful enterprise that has 
brought the boon of cheap light, heat and power to thous- 
ands of homes in this Province, and will yet bring it to thous- 
ands more. Not only that, but it represents the chief source 
of the confident hope for the continued and permanent great 
industrial development and supremacy of this Province. That 
is the future to which we look forward with faith and 

Mr. Speaker, I have already taken too long. The esti- 
mates are before you. They have already been dealt with in 
some detail in the House, and any comments that I might be 
able to make upon them would be trespassing upon the time of 
the House. I beg, therefore, to move that you do now leave 
the Chair. 



Octobee 31st, 1911. 

Bank Balances: — 

Current account $61,916 99 

Special deposits bearing interest 1,442,000 00 

$1,503,916 99 

Sinking Funds: — 

Re Ontario Government inscribed 

stock, 5 Edward VII., cap. 2 and 3, 

£1,200,000, one-half of one per cent. 

per annum on the principal. 
Amount of stock purchased for the 

Province for sinking fund by the 

Bank of Montreal, Fiscal Agents, 

to the 31st of October, 1911, 

£38,293 3s. at par of exchange 186,104 70 

Re Ontario Government inscribed 

stock, 8 Edward VII., cap. 11 and 

12, £1,320,000, one-half of one per 

cent, per annum on the principal. 
Amount of stock purchased for the 

Province for sinking fund by the 

Bank of Montreal, Fiscal Agents, 

to the 31st of October, 1911, 

£11,644 2s. 6d. at par of exchange 56,590 45 

Debentures : — 

Drainage Debentures 209,491 41 

Tile Drainage Coupons 46,525 00 

Sault Ste. Marie Debentures 25,572 50 

281,588 91 

Temiskaming and Northern Ontario Rail- 
way, amount expended to 3 1st October, 
1911, see (Statement No. 16 17,535,662 69 

Niagara Power Transmission and Port 
Arthur Power Transmission. Amount 
expended on Transmission Lines to 
October 31st, 1911: 

Niagara Transmission Lines 4,125,897 98 

Port Arthur Transmission Line 56,024 87 

4,181,922 85 

(Interest and Sinking Fund to be paid 
by Municipalities.) 

Balance due from sale of Old Government 
House Property 720,000 00 

Balance due from sale of Central Prison 
and Toronto Asylum properties 975,660 00 


HON. I. B. LUCAS. 33 


Common School Fund (see Consolidated 
Statutes, c. 26), 1,000,000 acres set apart 
(proceeds realized to 31st December, 
1910), after deducting Land Improve- 
ment Fund, $2,617,592.14, portion be- 
longing to Ontario, as per population 

of 1901 1,491,204 60 

Note. — See Awards, Sessional papers, 
1900 and 1901. 

Common School Fund, Montmorency 
Bridge Debentures paid over to the Do- 
minion re Quebec Turnpike Trust, 
$6,0100.00, portion belonging to Ontario, 
as per population of 1901 3,418 11 1,494,622 71 

Total assets $26,936,069 30 


(1) Ontario Government Inscribed 
Stock (London, Eng., loan), 5 
Edward VII., cap. 2 and 3, 3V 2 per 
cent., principal due 1st January, 
1946, for construction of Temis- 
kaming and Northern Ontario Rail- 
way, £1,200,000 at par of exchange 5,840,004 00 

(2) Ontario Government Inscribed 
Stock (London, Eng., loan), 8 
Edward VII., cap. 11 and 12, and 
1 George V., cap. 4, 4 per cent., 
principal due May 1st, 1947, for 
construction of Temiskaming and 
Northern Ontario Railway, etc., 

£l,320,0i00 at par of exchange 6,424,000 00 

(3) Ontario Government Bonds and 
(Stock, 5 Edward VII., cap. 2, and 
6 Edward VII., cap. 4 (Canadian 
loan), Zy 2 per cent., principal due 
July 1st, 1926, and July 1st, 1936, 

- for construction of Temiskaming 
and Northern Ontario Railway 3,000,000 00 

(4) Ontario Government Bonds and 
Stock, 5 Edward VII., cap. 2 and 
3 (Canadian loan), 4 per cent., 
principal due June 1st, 1939, for 
construction of Temiskaming and 

Northern Ontario Railway 1,150,000 00 


(5) Ontario Government Bonds and 
Stock, 8 Edward VII., cap. 12, and 

9 Edward VII., cap. 8 (Canadian 
loan), 4 per cent., principal due 

June 1st, 1939 3,500,000 00 

(6) Ontario Government Bonds and 
Stock, 1 George V., cap. 9, and 8 
Edward VII., cap. 12 (Canadian 
loan), Algonquin Park Loan and 
Purchase Act, 4 per cent., princi- 
pal due May 1st, 1941. $500,00-0.00 
authorized. Amount issued to Octo- 
ber 31st, 1911 290,000 00 

(7) Ontario Government Stock, Chari- 
table and Educational Bequests. 9 
Edward VII., cap. 26, sec. 42, and 

10 Edward VII., cap. 26, sec. 47 1.000 CO 

(8) Municipal Securities, 8 Edward 
VII., cap. 51. Municipal Sinking 
Funds on deposit with the Province 
of Ontario to 31st October, 1911, 

with accrued interest at 4 per cent 64,618 97 

(9) Railway Certificates, present value 
outstanding on 31st October, 1911. 2,497,561 52 
Annuity Certificates, present value 
outstanding on 31st October, 1911.. 1,401,645 43 

3,899,206 95 

(10) Common School Fund collections 
by Ontario, from 1st January, 1911, 
payable to the Dominion, in trust 

for both Provinces 5,341 66 

In trust for Ontario . . . 2,976 36 
In trust for Quebec 2,365 30 

(11) University of Toronto Certificates, 
$30,000.00 per annum for 24 years, 
5 Edward VII., cap. 37, present 

value at 3% per cent, per annum 481,751 10 

(12) Assurance Fund under the Land 
Titles Act, R.S.O., 1897, cap. 137, 
sec. 130, amended by 3 Edward VII., 
cap. 12, sec. 5, 10 Edward VII., 

cap. 61 110,000 00 

Total Direct Liabilities $24,765,922 68 

HON. I. B. LUCAS. 35 


(1) Niagara Falls Park Bonds: 

(50 Vic, c. 13) $525,000 00 

(57 Vic, c 13) 75,000 00 

(8 Edw. VII., cap. 29) 100,000 00 

(10 Edw. VII., cap. 21) 200,000 00 

$900,000 00 

Note. — The income of the Park 
Commission from lease of power, 
etc., was sufficient to pay all main- 
tenance and interest charges and 
leave a balance available for capital 

(2) The Canadian Northern Ontario 
Railway Company: 

Guarantee by the Province of On- 
tario under authority of 8 Edward 
VII., cap. 47, of principal and in- 
terest at 3% per cent, per annum, 
Debenture stock of above Railway 
payable in thirty years from 30th 
of June, 190S. £1,615,068 9s. 7d. 
sterling 7,860,000 00 

Secured by First Mortgage on 
Railway, Rolling Stock and Ter- 

(3) University of Toronto: 

Guarantee by the Province of 
Ontario under authority, Order in 
Council, 15th July, 1908, and 16th 
June, 1909, Debentures of above 
University, payable 15th July, 1910, 
to 15th July, 1949. 40 years 500,000 00 

(4) University of Toronto: 

Guarantee by the Province of On- 
tario, under authority, Order in 
Council, 7th April, 1911, Debentures 
of above University, payable 1st 
January, 1912, to 1st January, 1951. 
40 years 130,000 00 

630,000 00 

$9,390,000 00 


Fiscal Yeab Ended October 31st, 1911. 


Balances as per Public Accounts, 1910. 

$ c. $ c. 

Amount at Special Deposit 

31st October, 1910 3,032,000 00 

Amount at Current Account 

31st October, 1910 145,589 66 

3,177,589 66 

Consolidated Revenue Fund. 

From Dominion of Canada: 

Subsidy on population, 

B.N.A. Act, 19017 1,879,343 80 

Subsidy, 47 Vic, c. 4 142,414 48 

Special Grant, B.N.A. Act, 

1907 240,000 00 

Interest paid by Dominion, 

see Statement No. 3 74,671 26 

Interest on Investments. . 57,613 13 

2,261,758 28 

132,284 39 

Lands, Forests and Mines; 

Cbown Lands: 

Agricultural 114,403 46 

Mining 64,268 43 

178,671 89 

Common School 

Lands 6,281 24 

University Lands.. 1,889 12 


Mining Leases . 

. . 25,797 14 

Crown Leases . 

. . 21,577 82 



Miners' Licenses 

. . 78,800 60 


. . 6,291 38 

Recording Fees . 

..126,676 59 




..285,913 26 

Provincial Mines 

348 73 



HON. I. B. LUCAS. 37 

Supplementary Revenue: 

Acreage Tax 14,570 91 

Profit Tax 176,314 23 

Gas Tax 18,576 37 

209,461 51 

Woods and Forests: 

Bonus . . 426,718 71 

Timber Dues ..1,173,283 85 

Ground Rent ....104,325 96 

Transfer Pees . . . 7,110 35 

1,711,438 87 

Provincial Assay- 
Fees 1,362 37 

Casual Pees 791 01 

Cullers' Fees 288 00 

Algonquin Park . . . 5,415 92 

Rondeau Park 357 80 

Forest Reserves . . . 1,309 00 


Wood Ranging .. 9,818 89 

Fire Ranging . . . 33,679 66 

Surveys 3,598 63 

Agents' Salaries . 310 00 

Contingencies . . . 150 00 
Explorations and 

Investigations . 12 00 

Bureau of Mines. 1 25 

2,441 38 

7,082 72 

47,570 43 

2,710,242 68 

From Licenses 656,363 66 

« Law Stamps 104,155 95 

* Algoma Taxes 6,805 50 

u Education 42,784 72 

* Provincial Secretary 323,736 25 

* Game and Fisheries 130,267 39 

« Agriculture 147,169 64 

a Supplementary Revenue Act, 8 

Edw. VII., c. 14 854,659 91 

u Succession Duty 963,195 49 

u Succession Duty (Funds deposited 
in lieu of Bond for payment of 

Succession Duty) 87,437 87 

" Casual Revenue 160,671 21 



From Public Institutions: 

Toronto Hospital for Insane 




London " 



Penetanguishene " 


Cobourg " 

Reformatory for Females 

Central Prison 

Central Prison Industries 

54,057 29 
16,926 75 
42,524 72 
15,140 42 
38,485 25 
18,673 45 
12,911 83 
3,461 53 
14,712 03 

815 76 
10,457 44 

778 72 
45,355 77 

274,300 96 

Temiskaming and Northern Ontario Rail- 
way, from Earnings 515,000 00 

Total Receipts 9,370,833 90 

Drainage Debentures, Municipal 20,031 74 

Drainage Debentures, Tile 6,855 00 

Proyince of Ontario Loan (Algonquin Park), net pro- 
ceeds to October 31st, 1911. See Statement No. 17.. 292,989 44 

Ontario Government Inscribed Stock, £ 500,000 Loan. 
Amount credited to Ontario Treasury Dept. See 
Statement No. 18 2,387,805 64 

Municipal Securities, Municipal Sinking Funds received 

for fiscal year ended Oct. 31st, 1911 30,179 44 

Assurance Fund under The Land Titles Act, 10 Edw. 
VII., cap. 61 30,000 00 

Ontario Govt. Stock (Peter Adamson Memorial Scholar- 
ship), 9 Edw. VII., cap. 26, sec. 42, and 10 Edw. VII., 
cap. 26, sec. 47 1,000 00 

Central Prison and Toronto Asylum Properties, Sale of 89,840 00 

$15,407,124 82 

HON. I. B. LUCAS. 39 


Consolidated Revenue Fund: 

For Civil Government 602,528 24 

" Legislation 275,959 77 

" Administration of Justice 653,383 69 

" Education 1,885,739 57 

" Public Institutions Maintenance... 1,197,726 38 

" Colonization and Immigration 106,906 61 

" Agriculture 680,101 17 

" Stationary Engineers 6,096 61 

" Hospitals and Charities 357,849 12 

" Repairs and Maintenance 199,511 59 

" Colonization Roads 451,111 26 

" Charges Crown Lands 617,111 98 

" Refunds 67,335 69 

" Miscellaneous Services 252,953 53 

" Hydro-Electric Power Commission: 
Provincial Government Expendi- 
ture, 1911 91,302 43 

7,445,617 64 

Public Buildings: 

For Hospitals for Insane 170,606 23 

" Reformatory for Females 5,040 56 

" Central Prison, Toronto 3,445 49 

" Osgoode Hall 15,328 56 

" Normal Schools 13,304 69 

" Ontario Government Building, Lon- 
don, Eng 19,336 21 

" Agricultural College 8,722 45 

" Fruit Experimental Station 1,903 52 

" McKay House, 5 Queen's Park 19,356 94 

" Ontario Government Office, 172 

Front St. W., Toronto 16 50 

" Deaf and Dumb Institute, Belleville 4,199 99 

" Blind Institute, Brantford 2,481 60 

" Eastern Dairy School 399 15 

" Children's Shelter 35 60 

" Unorganized Districts 36,209 30 

" Public Works 172,065 92 

" Parliament and Departmental 

Buildings— Fire Alarm 2,188 00 

" Special Warrants 53,113 30 

" Stationery Accounts, excess of pur- 
chases over distribution 6,069 81 


Statutory Expenditure: 

For Interest charges on Ontario Govern- 
ment Bonds and Stock (5 Edw. 
VII., cap. 2, and 6 Edw. VII., cap. 

4), $3,000,000.00 Loan 104,973 75 

" Interest charges and Sinking Fund 
on Ontario Government In- 
scribed Stock (5 Edw. VII., cap. 
2 and 3), £1,200,000 Loan 234,660 45 

" Interest Charges and Sinking 
Fund on Ontario Government 
Inscribed Stock (8 Edw. VII., 
cap. 11 and 12; and 1 George V., 
cap. 4), £1,320,000 Loan 235,773 82 

" Interest Charges, on Ontario Gov- 
ernment Bonds and Stock (5 
Edw. VII., cap. 2 and 3), 
$1,150,000.00 Loan 46,020 81 

" Interest Charges, on Ontario Gov- 
ernment Bonds and Stock (8 
Edw. VII., cap. 12, and 9 Edw. 
VII., cap. 8), $3,500,000.00 Loan 139,961 72 

For Interest Assurance Fund under the 
Land Titles Act (10 Edw. VII., 
cap. 61) 2,000 00 

" Interest Ontario Government Stock 
(9 Edw. VII., cap. 26, sec. 42; and 
10 Edw. VII., cap. 26, sec. 47) 25 00 

Not otherwise enumerated (Statutory). 877,077 02 

2,174,316 39 

Total Expenditure $9,619,934 03 

For Drainage Debentures, Municipal (Statu- 
tory) 56,073 25 

" Drainage Debentures, Tile (Statutory) 7,600 00 
" Advanced to the Temiskaming & 

Northern Ont. Railway (Statutory) 1,412,324 00 

" Good Roads (Statutory) 179,688 26 

" Dog Lake Dam 33,172 88 

HON. I. B. LUCAS. 41 

For New Government House 166,227 27 

" New Provincial Prison 159,920 87 

" Osgoode Hall, addition to Centre 

Building 71,231 16 

" Parliament Buildings, West Wing . . 193,801 79 
" Parliament Buildings, Addition to . . 281,599 69 

" Provincial Museum 50,000 00 

" Ontario Veterinary College 22,937 06 

" Munn Lumber Co., payment for sur- 
render of Timber Limits in Algon- 
quin Park 290,000 00 

" Advanced to Hydro-Electric Commis- 
sion during fiscal year, ended Oct. 
31st, 1911: 

Expended on Niagara 
Power Transmission 

Lines 1,332,581 78 

Expended on Port Arthur 
Transmission Lines . . 26,115 79 

1,358,697 57 

4,283,273 80 

(Interest and Sinking Fund to be paid 
by Municipalities.) 

Amount at Special Deposit, 31st Oct., 
1911 1,442,000 00 

Amount at Current Account, 31st Get, 
1911 ...... 61,916 99 

1,503,916 99 

$15,407,124 82 




31st OCTOBER, 1911. 


Subsidy $2,396,429 28 

Interest on Common School Funds held 

by the Dominion $75,000 00 

Interest on Investments 50,000 00 

125,000 00 

Lands, Forests and Mines Department: 
Lands and Forests: 

Timber Dues, Bonus, 

Ground Rent, etc. ...$1,900,000 00 
Crown Lands 200,000 00 

2,100,000 00 


Royalties $335,000 00 

Supplementary Revenue 150,000 00 

Leases and Sales 80,000 00 

License Fees, Recording 

Fees, etc 125,000 00 

Miscellaneous 10,000 00 

700,000 00 

2,800,000 00 

Public Institutions 228,000 00 

Education Department 46,000 00 

Provincial Secretary's Department 251,000 00 

Agriculture 150,000 00 

Casual Revenue 160,000 00 

Succession Duties 700,000 00 

Supplementary Revenue Tax (8 Edw. VII., cap. 14). 875,000 00 

Tavern and Brewers' Licenses 775,000 00 

Law Stamps 100,000 00 

Game and Fisheries 125,000 00 

Estimated Earnings, T. & N. O. Ry 500,000 00 

Hydro-Electric Power Commission, Interest, etc 173,000 00 

Total Estimated Receipts $9,404,429 28 

Cash Balances, 31st October, 1911 1,503,916 99 

Total $10,908,346 27 

HON. I. B. LUCAS. 43 

OCTOBER 31ST, 1912. 

Civil Government $727,228 50 

Legislation 286,500 00 

Administration of Justice 744,203 83 

Education 2,022,652 48 

Public Institutions Maintenance 1,883,307 00 

Agriculture 703,536 00 

Colonization and Immigration 107,728 55 

Hospitals and Charities 420,038 14 

Repairs and Maintenance 144,069 29 

Public Buildings 483,642 83 

Public Works 98,650 00 

Colonization Roads 133,000 00 

Charges Crown Lands 651,550 00 

Refunds 67,458 73 

Miscellaneous 671,500 49 

$8,645,065 84 


Hydro-Electric Power Commission: 

Transmission Lines $1,870,000 00 

New Provincial Prison 275,000 00 

Osgoode Hall 21,800 00 

New Government House 250,000 00 

Parliament Buildings, West Wing 190,000 00 

Parliament Buildings, Addition, including furnish- 
ings, library fittings and Hydro-Electric equipment 310,000 00 

Provincial Museum 50,000 00 

Hospital for Insane, Brockville, additional buildings 

and farm lands 50,000 00 

Hospital for Feeble-Minded, Orillia, additional build- 
ings 20,000 00 

Hospital for Insane, Toronto, additional buildings, 

farms, land and equipment 200,000 00 

Institution for the Deaf and Dumb, Belleville, erec- 
tion of new dormitory 65,000 00 

Institution for the Blind, Brantford, new dormitory 

building 65,000 00 

Ontario Agricultural College, new Dining Hall 75,000 00 

Ontario Agricultural College, new Dairy Stables and 

additional land 31,500 00 

Ontario Veterinary College 50,000 00 

$12,168,365 84 
(Capital Account, $3,523,300.00.) 



Statement showing amounts payable annually for certificates issued by 
the Treasurer of the Province for "Aid to Railways " and Annuities. 

Railway Aid 


Railway Aid 


$ c. 

$ c. 

$ c. 

$ c. 


2,504,025 72 

1,692,650 00 


138,412 94 

50,700 00 


134,914 94 

43,700 00 


51,450 00 


127,918 94 

32,700 00 


139,112 54 

102,900 00 


125,120 54 

28,700 00 


139,112 54 

102,900 00 


123,021 74 

28,700 00 


139,112 54 

102,900 00 


111,128 54 

24,700 00 


139,112 54 

102,900 00 


105,090 01 

16,700 00 


139,112 54 

102,900 00 


94,459 80 

9,200 00 


139,112 54 

102,900 00 


90,961 80 

2,850 00 


139,112 54 

102,900 00 


86,122 35 


139,112 54 

102,900 00 


82,239 02 


139,112 54 

102,900 00 


67,943 75 


139,112 54 

102,900 00 


31,818 40 


139,112 54 

102,900 00 


24,920 51 


139,112 54 

102,900 00 


22,695 08 


139,112 54 

96,200 00 


18,251 86 


139,112 54 

82,500 00 


18,251 86 


139,112 54 
139,112 54 

69,350 00 


18,251 86 


56,950 00 


18,251 86 


139,112 54 
139,112 54 

50,700 00 
50,700 00 


6,871 26 



699 60 


2,504,025 72 

1,692,650 00 


3,951,372 38 

1,930,600 00 

NOTE. — Present value of Railway Certificates , October 

31st, 1911 (interest If per cent, half yearly). .. $2,497,561.52 
Present value of Annuities, October 31st, 1911 

(interest If per cent, half yearly) , 1 , 401 , 645 . 43